Continue with Recommended Cookies, A major recaster in China is closing up shop after being contacted by Games Workshop regarding their Warhammer. No one has put more indie model firms out of business than GW. GW seldom does. Back in 2018, we saw a similar scene as well: So it appears after raising their prices on Forge World overnight by 20%, or more in some cases, Games Workshop may have started to go after Warhammer recaster companies located in China directly this holiday season. With those numbers the hobby will never die, thats amazing! Although you will see the very evident differences, during this comparison you will find the original piece on the left pictures and the recast to the right. Its material has still some margin for manipulation, as opposed to the one in the recast copy. How Imperial Agents Work in 10th Edition & Free Arbites Rules! Changed their name many times, now operating via email sending emails with links to the actual catalog. Their pricing model hurts the growth of the hobby, it doesnt promote it. All names, trademarks, and images are copyrighted by their respective owners. Its common knowledge, but still kind of a secret. What a bad argument. DVD prices havent gone down. Mainly because it is ILLEGAL. CCoN has lower inventory variety and higher cost, but he's cheapest when he has a sale and it's really good quality. These illegal copies are either found in the second hand market or directly by those looking for a 70% discount or more. Ive loved games workshops products for over 20 years now but im finding it harder and harder to justify spending so much on their productsespecially after they tried so hard to stop us here in australia finding cheaper prices overseas, ill continue to support gw by buying genuine products but im not going to pay the crazy prices they want is to pay here. They were producing beautiful miniatures (crazy complicated game) but they were cut the margins too thinly. All I can say is that the metal quality is horrible. In addition to this, the flat parts are not flat by any (ANY) means. I now rely on trade forums to find slightly reasonably priced models. GWs greed and extortionate prices. If you dont have the money to afford models, dont buy them. Recasting can come out of any country, I can think of at least seven countries from which recasters regularly produce illegal copies. produce in the country you sell in and not in china.. then we can talk until then you get what you deserve! Their miniatures are good-quality. This really rips ma knitting this! After that no surprise if some brands get copied in the first place, that kind of behavior and answer has no place in a world where international trades are a thing. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'spikeybits_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_9',634,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-spikeybits_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0');Mix Your Paint In Seconds! They are the backbone of the operation and have done this for years to create wonderful minis as well as a great line of paints. Soon they will be 3D scanning and 3D printing and mass producing making more profit. Shall I summon the serf dedicated to worshiping the shavings from your glorious toenails, milord? If I had to choose between paying my electricity bill or having a dread saurian , its crystal clear. In this role, you will be monitoring websites and sales platforms to identify infringements and counterfeit products and then you will follow a structured process for removing those products, reducing counterfeit products available across all sales platforms and websites. It didnt take long for GW to take action, and after a while it became nearly impossible to find these copies online. That does not mean I only buy from a recast seller , but expensive and big models worth of the discount . The above is, again, scare-mongering. We arent saying you shouldnt buy alternate versions of models that you can use in your tabletop games. If you say because of the recent boom of recasting being available you would expect GW to be affected in some way? Youre not automatically entitled to them. A regular in national events wherever they are, huge advocate of hobbying with good beer and friends ;). Greedy company? They had major financial crisis, had to take crazy decisions Gone! Here in Spain we call it Chinoforge, the one that pretty much everyone has heard of. For legit business there is high quality resin, concept art, sculpting fees, box art, advertising and labour, please dont minimise this with a flipant statement. Find, rate and share the best memes and images. Recommended Products For The Miniatures Hobby! Adding on to what Shane Rozzell have said and more direct. Theyre decent sculpts, decent quality minis. I have also had some which are close if not flawless. The price of the cinema these days is ridiculous. Prisons are filled with thieves. GW going out of business would be the best thing in the world for the hobby. I love the crocodile tears about the indie companies. GW can produce, package, sculpt, advertise etc a box of Cadian Shock Troops for 20. I will always buy the original product when I can, but Im also going to buy high quality recasts for models that I need multiples of. Thank you for your inputs Rusty! If you are honestly trying to peddle such nonsense as recast being better than originals you are either seriously deluded or an outright liar! You arent using a recaster, he is using you. They are very complicated to clean, and with a lot of burrs. For a better comparison, I have cleaned all the copies of excess resin and plastic. Reporting to our Senior Legal Counsel, you will be part of our Legal team which handles a wide range of legal matters which affect Games Workshop including infringements, trade mark and copyright protection, competitions, dispute resolution and litigation, to name but a few! So if people in the third world cant pay western prices having recasts means more of a hobby presence that pushes those who value original source into an ongoing if not growing stream of business. We are actually preparing another post about that specific issue you are mentioning because that is a topic that will also lead to a huge discussion! Warhammer fantasy was half my life and then they did this to me.. fuck them. As Infringements Assistant, you will assist with all things relating to infringements. So the person being greedy here is you. But if we want to talk about greed; innefficient capital structures like the massive litigious company games workshop has become cant talk and the average human animal forced into a capitalistic system also cant be blamed. Games workshop has an extremely bad ethic towards its pricing, I saw a comparison of two kits, with a near identical amount of plastic used for the construction and both were released in the same time frame and likely designed side by side. We mainly cover Warhammer 40k, Fantasy, Age of Sigmar, Warmachine, Hordes, X-Wing, Infinity, Horus Heresy, and Star Wars Armada. Take these smaller companies making stunning models for half the price or even less, how is that possible? And what about the companies (from small to big) that produce miniatures based on comics/movies/books/games/characters/ without paying for a license? Even so, I think this issue began with Chinese copies of Forgeworld references. But some of our niche names might disappear over night. Instead of looking into the business that are in the climate (and possibly are the reason for the climate being the way it is) we try to cancel culture those in the hobby. I hope the author never watches streaming movies or mp3s. This is How to Play The Conquest Nords Army Faction, Final Changes Are Here For 9th Edition 40k: Balance Datasheet, Good Luck Getting The New Lion, Dante or Azrael 40k Models Now. Look at Rackham from 10 years ago. I wouldnt take a recast even if someone gives it to me for free. The models chosen are both from Forgeworld, the Elysian Tauros Venator and the classic Lietpold the Black. This had to be done because it was nearly impossible to identify many of the pieces that came attached to large blobs of resin. When GW sells the same models in Australia for 60-90% more than the US for no good reason it is hard to feel sorry for them. Here's his speech in full to read all at once. As expected, the pieces to assemble are the same as the original. So recast companies will push this margin further and further. The current situation especially benefits those people who kept their stuff in boxes rather than paint/assemble/game with them, essentially those who buy the product but dont take part in the hobby. that is a crap attitude, and glad I dont know you and have anything to do with you. For the sake of this report, we have acquired a couple of Chinese illegal recasts as well as their respective originals, and we are going toshow you in detail why there is no point at all in buying these pieces of bad plastic. And its not more acceptable if its one of your friends or idols who did it (remember a particular space wolf bust?). See our, and recently hired an infringements assistant. You can call people that buy recasts thieves I hope you enjoy your elitist hobby with the few people that can afford to play it. GW rant incoming: I agree with buying recasts only when it is GW. My issue is the price, these limited edition models ie: Eisenhorn, Sly, some of the Primaris models are just crazy expensive in comparison. However, I bring up a different point the recasters, who are using what amounts to slave labor in the sweatshops working with toxic resins? I dont agree with that it is stealing, its models I would never buy anyway. Save Money On All These Alternative Miniatures. Discover the magic of the Internet at Imgur. As much as I loved the action parts of the 10th edition cinematic, Guilliman's speech was an underrated highlight that goes harder than some might not have realized because it constantly cuts between his speech and badass action. In addition, as you will see later, the casting is not good and irregular surfaces of material are very evident. We are saying to watch out for recasts of other artists personal work. Hell, 5 years ago they were barely with 10 dollars a share. Just saying individuals like that who do that have no moral compass. They tried to go public to get quick capitol and ended up eating it. We basically pay to perpetuate the work of each and every one of the artists involved in the birth of this miniature. Judge yourselves. Tripling the quarterly profits isnt exactly telling me that they are covering costs and slowly expanding. I have no remorse whatsoever for GW. Prices go up. Their heart is closer to their craft, and I could not justify owning their product while paying someone else for it. A quick check of eBay appeared to turn up way fewer listings for "Forge World" than last week at this time. Nor over on Volomir talked about some of the reasons why miniature copies need to be []. . The difficult thing is to develop a miniature from scratch, starting with an idea that begins with just a few pencil strokes on paper. Personally I would like to see new players pick it up and have the hobby flourish. OK, rightful, dont buy it, but if you buy from a recast is like steal the model. View, download or. Rules Recaster Z is the lowest cost and - #171951649 added by manollette at Desu Korps of Kreig 21 2019 Games Workshop Warhammer 40k Ork Boyz $40 A recasting catalog 2/2/18 A recasting catalog 2/2/18. Try to pay a good concept designer, a good sculptor, a good painter for box art, than doing promotion, pay tax, location, bills and what else and dont forget you need to have profit for time and risk you took. or have you forgotten about the atrocious quality that was Citadel Finecast, here despite the shit quality we still saw an increase in price. The other aspect is quality of product, I know a lot of LoTR players would rather buy metal recasts from ebay rather than finecast versions of originally metal models from gw (basically all the elite troops were switched from metal to finecast when finecast first came out, so its not even the improved finecast). The recasts I buy are better quality and for what I would 80 quid for from forge world I can buy from China for 20 dollars including delivery. There was something about those little-colored blocks that started it all Twitter @catdaddymbg, Get ad-free access to our hobby videos, a monthly crate of miniatures, and support some of the best creators out there for as little as, If you buy something from a link on our site, we may earn a commision. We see three key points to avoid these false copies: And if after reading this article you want to do something positive about this, its quite easy actually. Wait how is this killing the hobby ? The assumption that any money spent on recasts would have gone to GW is incorrect. Unfortunately, the quality of their products leaves much to be desired. the books are out there the rules are out there, it would be like if Monopoly was suddenly no longer made every one knows the rules and can build their own board quit being GW fan boys they dont give a shit about you. After games workshops 150 million EXTRA prophit in 2018 Im not sure that recasting is harming the hobby in the slightest. But if they got a fund together and I am sure there are enough lawyers between hobbyists that can support it pro bono. No? Also, these fake copies come without any instructions (as opposed to, of course, the original Forgeworld copy). We just make claims. We havent got a global Netflix style service with all movies available. people who dont play a game ultimately kill the game/hobby. is it going to cause the game to completely vanish if the company were to shut down ? Its not difficult to find recasts, or at least, know where to look for them. Manufacturer SCALE 75 minis, have put their foot down and advocated an anti-piracy message into the hobby world. And I do not buy the excuse hey, this is an expensive hobby. You are absolutely right and I agree with you (but I like, and buying, many expensive figures). You stole the profits from a miniature company that puts food on their table, heats their homes, takes their kids to sports events/cinema (more on this in a min)/etc. But, from my experience, smaller manufactures like Andrea, and Pegaso, and Scibor, and Blacksmith, etc. LET THEM sink. Speaking strictly GW, it is hard to say what effect recasting is having. I am relatively new to the hobby maybe 4 years now and get the argument from each side. Or rather, do they produce miniatures with base polystyrene produced in highly toxic factories in China and Vietnam? even once all my returns have been replaced by forgeworld the model is still of a lower quality than the recast. . Cheers. What companies are u using for recasts? Some of the casts I have bought would struggle to be used as scenery they are that bad. Everyone knows about them. Yes, this is a business for me, my only job since 25 years, the way I have to pay my bills and keep doing what I love. This would be paradoxal. I thought he was describing forge world quality there for a second. Im having to search now forgeworld has stop so many horus heresy models. GW also has a massive network of stores. Recast popularity reflects that or they would not keep popping up. If you order anything that is not titan sized you get all the same issues the recasts have. The arguments here are simple white knighting and emotional, there is no one actually willing to discuss anything or addressing recasting. there was articular about how GW buys there cast from Chinese companys and they over order and then decide not to pay for amount they decide they no longer need. why is it that if I spend 70 on a primarch from forgeworld, I have to send at least 3 or 4 of those parts back to be exchanged because of mould slips or just general terrible casting and I will likely have to return one of the replacements they send me too. We exploit our environment by our very nature and capitals need for constant continual acceleration in exploitation was never sustainable to start with. Why, then, does FW (who run a much smaller operation, fewer employees, use silicon moulds rather than the hundred thousand pound plastic ones) charge 40 for a box of 10 Krieg Troopers? I also dont really care that much, GW killed warhammer fantasy so I dont mind if they get whats coming to them. Now lets say in this situation I have a friend who plays WH and hes a recaster, and he can get me that same army for $50. Greg Smith, omg, really ? Ought I go back to whipping them, or should they be permitted to return to working in the fields? u go to china to get the product made why do you deserve protection from western copy right laws ? Some companies sell their original 28mm figures for less than 1.50 yet other companies sell theirs for 8. On average every 30 recasts bought is one less miniature to the market. When you create a community of over 200 players/painters from occident and another 300 mainlanders, manage to make an order form for let say greenstuff world for those 500 lads to get legit stuff, and you are being told : you guys are thief so no we wont deliver in China because we do not want to get copied While saying that to a European. They take all the financial risk to give a miniature its origin, why shouldnt they be entitled to make an honest living? Copies from recasters, most of the time from China, are at first glance an option to acquire otherwise expensive miniatures at affordable prices. I have no problem doing a massive company like GW out of 40 quid. I mean, yes, you have to pay sculpting, designing, producingBut after a certain amount of models sold, the rest is profit. The cheap cost of resin you mention would only be associated with recasters. You have entered an incorrect email address! Just out of curiosity, what about recasts of long out of print miniatures, or miniatures from defunct companies? Do they source their injection molds from Australian materials and Mexican labor? I blame LEGOs. Both have exactly the same parts. I havent bought any GW recasts yet but I support it because if it eventually hurts GW enough that they reevaluate their business practices and lower their prices, that will bring more people into the hobby and overall gaming will be better. That is the price ofany original model. The more people there are who are anticipating the reveal of new stuff are there because there is an established community and it only gets better the bigger the community is. Its partly to do with inflation, but mostly due to the declining numbers of people going. These artists work hard. @Greg smith : Everyone before me has already said what is correct. Recaster Z is the lowest cost and - #171951649 added by manollette at Desu Korps of Kreig Upload. However, by doing so we are ignoring the damage that this does to the industry . They tried to grow way too fast and their main game had waaay to many units and thus huge costs to cover it. If you plan on punishing players (and I mean PUNISH them) when you compare what you offer for what other reasonable vendors offer, you find re-castes are a result of your own actions. Im not into recasting but what I find ridiculous is Games Workshops prices. Seriously, those copies are better quality than originals looking only on those pictures. Man, either you are some kid, troll or just an idiot with no capacity to think logically. Horus Heresy Adds a New Librarian Consul Model! Appealing to modelers if futile in my opinion, there is not enough power in that argument to change buying habits. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. Seriously, if you received the package and looked at it carefully, you would understand what we are talking about. All rights reserved. You guys do a great job on this site/blog. It leaves you a very salty taste. Many other companies offer products as good as theirs or even better for a lower price. during the month, more than 5 times the quantity that me (the creator, designer and fighter) sold the same month. So what Jag is saying is if something is more expensive than he wants to pay, he is justified in stealing it. The one kit, the producers knew was a more elite unit and that people were likely to buy one or two of at most, the other a basic infantry squad and that people were more likely to need a decent handful of. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. FJ was developed by a multicultural team of various beliefs. Thats the total cost for them, packaging, payroll, the lot. as you seem to be proud of the fact you steal form these companies. I would say though that what you talk about is a different topic to what we are discussing in this post. It is our aim to be an inclusive and wholesome place for all. There was a study by the EU relating to video games that piracy helped games sell better. Not me. Salaries of their employees are probably atrociousand, above all, they undermine the business of proper companies endangering their countinuity. Box 2225Southern Pines, NC 28387United States of America. Of course, cheaper things are always more attractive, but it comes back to the principle of supporting your local business. Now we have to spend 40 on a family trip to the cinema. Only we can act effectively against miniature recasting! The resin used is crap, brittle, with a lot of detail being lost and probably it is even toxic. Now im buying tons of big recasted models. We are always keen to ensure continuous improvement of our processes, so you will be involved in researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing and counterfeit product removal and implementing improvements to the infringements process.. Reply . OUR EXISTENCE IS IN DANGER! No it is killing the cinema. At a glance, recasts appear quite similar, but when looked at closely, important flaws become evident. Im now buying models that Id never buy because they are crazy expensive, for example forgeworld knights. With Z, the above linked infantry squad is $16. We are talking about recasts: illegal copies of miniatures. And we wouldnt want you to go through that. However, it is unknown if sellers have been similarly notified or if there is just a lull in listings. @ Greg Smith: That attitude is killing the hobby. Somone else will reinvent a more reasonable wheel. Ive never bought a re-cast and never will. 33% of the original, and with a positive experience in my pocket Im more likely to stick into the hobby, which means more long term profits. We pay so that the company we like so much is able to surpriseus again in the future with yet another piece to continue enjoying our hobby. For the good health of our hobby. Is it okay to create my own miniatures if they are not a product that Games Workshop creates or has any copyrights on? As evidenced with comments, for a lot of folk price is the issue and they will choose alternative, albeit poor quality. But there is a thing Id wish to point out, its the Chinese stigmatisation I am french living in China for about ten years now, and Chinese bashing is just a constant thing I hear from most of westerners and is absolutely not right either. Check out Yoyhammer. The quality is just as good as forgeworld, sometimes you need to add a little greenstuff though but the same goes with forgeworld models. Plain and simple. In the case of this piece, originally from Forgeworld, I had a small problem with the recasters. enter the latest monthly giveaway for FREE today! That is crazy for such a quality. Enjoy the hobby, dislike the business practices. Famous search engines of Chinese products show easily references of companies like Andrea Miniatures, Nocturna Models, Young Miniatures, Knight Models, and many others. As it goes for GW story is different as plastic is better, quality great and models in box sets are not so expensive. And people have stopped going because why spend 20 on a family trip to the cinema (10 years ago) when you can get the movie for free. My FLGS has 20 tables filled with terrain whereas the GW has two tables in a tiny store away from any major shopping areas. I got several figs from them, all ended up at GW legal that promptly provided me with a . Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. Not the original miniature companies. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. Recaster Z is the lowest cost and highest inventory overall, with a bit of a cut on quality. As a result, everyone is losing I, the Chinese, Games Workshop. This is exacerbated by them constantly suing companies for IP infringement like the Spot the Spacemarine case. Recasts: 3 reasons why we need to avoid illegal or unauthorized Amazing D&D Fantasy diorama tabletop terrain. They spend hundreds of thousands of dollars creating their cast presses for the units. Try again. Now it raise an other thing literally pissing me off if I may, due to that misinformation, we legit hobbyist/painters in China are also punished with blatant racism by most of the European brands (especially those from Spainsorry guys). @Greg. It's generally frowned upon. Blaming the pirates did not work for the music or film industries, it will not work here either. Game workshops prophit have been that big that instead of making their models cheaper for their customers they gave their staff a 2 thousand pounds bonus ( tax purposes) so boo hoo if the greedy fuckers are losing in the grand scale of things pocket change. Recasters mates, I got a leviathan dreadnought for 40 NZD, Here I was just about to order a god damn Storm Hawk and their page gets ----ing annihilated, Rip, they should be back up in a couple of days. I have original models, but only because I discovered only recently about recast and I will definitely go this way. Finally, are you sure you arent a recaster? Lets say I want a cheap 1k starting army, but Im a college kid who cant justify the outrageous cost ($250 minimum, plus the hobby equipment and paint for at least $300 min). Yes recasts are stealing IP but until GW treats us in a respectable manner, they garner no respect from us and therefore I couldnt care less about their IP. You have not idea about, a totally ignorant. Back in 2018, we saw a similar scene as well: So it appears after raising their prices on Forge World overnight by 20%, or more in some cases, Games Workshop may have started to go after Warhammer recaster companies located in China directly this holiday season. I have to necro a bit here. I get that its not just the model, the companies have huge overheads prior to selling a model. Manage Settings Believe it or not, this industry grows out of passion and love, the same we pour on every project on our workbench. Detail is not lost when buying from larger recasters. I perfectly understood is time wasted, but something in me hope you understood the type of scum you and your friend are. I have about 400 original models and tons of scenery stuff etc so ive spent a fortune. This sort of effect makes even more sense in model games, particularly WH. Nice article, only preaching to converted. Not the original miniature companies.. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. They stole the right to complain about re-castes when they demand unreasonable prices, and thus stealing the joy of the hobby. GW has serious plastic and great details, FW does not. This scourge of the hobby is a worldwide problem. You know what happens? Just as with Lietpold, the amount of resin and burrs it has is endless, making it especially difficult to find out what belongs to the model and what is left over. Overheads prior to selling a model the margins too thinly overall, with a bit a! Business interest without asking for consent they are very complicated to clean, and thus huge costs to it... To make an honest living hobby maybe 4 years now and get the argument from side. 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To completely vanish if the company were to shut down nearly impossible to identify many of discount... Above all, they undermine the business of proper companies endangering their countinuity video games piracy..... fuck them any major shopping areas much, GW killed warhammer fantasy was half my life and they... Have about 400 original models and tons of scenery stuff etc so ive spent a fortune # 171951649 added manollette! Once all my returns have been similarly notified or if there is no one actually willing to discuss or!
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