To: The Lonely Guy Out There Reading Down This Thread Getting All Worked Up About Glue. Since all PVA adhesives form a plastic film when dried this plastic will effectively melt once a sufficiently high temperature is reached. A way around this is to back cut or hollow the joint a bit, offer a place for the epoxy to live, yet have the edges of the joint touch, hiding the glue line. This is a way to have very light paddles, using a unique process thats fairly easy to do and offers a way to use alternating species colors for contrast, under a bright finish. Also, though West System is the industry leader, its also very highly priced for what it is. Should I ever be compensated to write, I will make full disclosure. Not much except cyanoacrylates will stick to it, though some polyurethanes do too (like PL Premium). And the only place I could find to post this question: anyone else have problems with tite bond 1 staining maple a weird blue color when used in the cold? So in addition to Titebond III I always keep a supply of CA on hand. The third difference is open time. That improves the instruments sustain or the time that a strummed string will produce a tone. I may not always live in Phoenix, so better safe than sorry. Id use a true wood filler like Timbermate. Our humidity is low with the exception of a couple months in summer. And speaking of Titebond glues, you can pick up all of your glue supplies and accessories in our Amazon Store. I used eastern white spruce, which I got from the local big box home supply store. Manufacturer guarantees/warranties for power tools, CNC and laser products will supersede the Rockler Guarantee if these items are damaged or defective. If they are just light weight cabinet doors, and the break is clean, use any wood glue, titebond 1, or Elmers wood glue, apply liberally to broken surfaces, and hold them together being sure the pieces are straight. I have an unheated. Epoxy or maybe even polyurethane glue would be a better choice. Im not a big fan of Gorilla glue because of the foaming you have to keep wiping it for about half an hour but it does have its uses. Its the only time Ive bought it as a result. Honestly the other factors are probably much more important to us: open time, color, water resistance. Honestly I have a 40 year old cutting board that has gone through the dish washer maybe 100 times and it was probably glued up with plain old yellow glue and it still is 100% fine, so we are talking theoretical v actual, when any of these glues would be fine for 99% of projects. Titebond II 1750 psi But it would be nice to have actual numbers to know exactly how much strength is being sacrificed and if its enough to worry about. I couldnt find a place for a question, so Im posting my question here. As soon as my gallon jug of West Systems runs out Ill be ready to try something new. Or other suggestions on how to strengthen the joints? Yet. I have to say the dark glue line was a nasty surprise for me. I think that they last a little longer that way. Got plenty of deck screws in there too, but the thing was rock solid with glue before I added the screws. Premium Wood Glue 16 oz. And if budget isnt a factor and you dont mind paying significantly more, you may as well just go with Titebond III and cover all the bases. And hide glue is reverseable; i.e., if you need to do a repair you can loosen a hide-glue joint with water. I use TB3 for exterior joinery, windows, doors, mainly for the extra glue up time, and they are usually paint grade. Ive seen it before and had to repair the damage. From my experience, all of these PVA-type glues respond poorly to temperature extremes. Epoxy is the adhesive of choice for boat builders, where you may have an object actually submerged in water. Which is it? These will nurse you through the techniques and various materials. I had googled looking for a clear description of the difference and as I was wondering if I was hindering myself by being a penny pincher and using original versus Type III that I saw recommend in some other places. As I mentioned, my current testing is exploring the strong points of this goo, such as its elongation and ability to recover with environmental changes. : Either way, for $3.50 more youre definitely buying a little peace of mind. III is also mentioned as better for laminations and veneer work when you dont need urea formaldehyde (sp? un-air-conditioned garage workshop. Gve some useful info that you would not get without spending hours at the store. So again, if you routinely paddle your boat over boiling water, maybe resorcinol is a better choice. Maybe even more important than shelf life is working temperature. also, whats the best way to get the glue into some of the hairline splits? I now keep all adhesives inside, but is cold that detrimental to all glues? The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". Provides extra set-up time for the finger joints on some boxes I built. Each, Starting at It breaks or de-polymerizes the surface molecules, which creates little fingers of broken carbon molecules, so the epoxy has something to key into. Id recommend the basic no blush from epoxyproducts.com (tell them PAR sent you) and also Marinepoxy from Bateau.com as the best substitutes, in regard to price per gallon, non-blush and reactivity. And they deal with issue 4 as well. X-Tip Multicap for 10 oz. If you work with epoxy regularly, as I do, these are huge considerations, besides the price. How about the new quick and thick Tightbond. It does not have to set completely but it needs to hold so that working on the next strip does not move it. Well it depends on the nature of the glue lines. It took me about 15 minutes from start to completion. It also analyzed reviews to verify trustworthiness. Not a dumb question at all Jason. For anyone who turns pens the CA glue is ideal for gluing the brass tubes into your blanks before turning. Another wonderful application of Titebond 3 is using it as a wood sealer. In personal and other independent testing, it softens and weakens considerably when immersed or well soaked, though it does seem to regain much, if not all of its strength when dried. Thx for the info. On the topic of GLUE! Should I glue the joints and let the glue set before I dip. There was an error retrieving your Wish Lists. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. I really do appreciate it. While it is not my preference, I think I'm going to have to resort to hide glue (didn't really want to do that). thanks, this can be significant, where the article appears to say all other factors between 2 and 3 are too small to concern our selves. Thanks for the kind response and all the definitive information, it is very much appreciated! and I enjoyed your humor in reference to the hot water delamination issue with epoxy! I was just asking myself the other day I wonder what the differnece is in the glues. But I do appreciate that there has been someone who finally explained it in a manner I can understand. In a pinch, you can use epoxy. Wood glue would not be a good option. We do this to certain plastics for the same reason. Ive had the same issue with the epoxy hardening after being on the shelf but not the same issue with wood glue. I repair a lot of furniture and Gorilla Glue, or any other polyurethane glue is not really glue at all, its a polyurethane foam that sticks to things well. I had that experience the first time I used Gorilla glue. Reviewed in the United Kingdom on December 22, 2017. Use of this site is subject to certain Terms Of Use. Dap Resorcicnol Glue has been discontinued by the manufacturer. Its a great way to get the stuff you need while helping support The Wood Whisperer! A final point would be shelf life. glue for this? Titebond also makes a hide glue, excellent for many furniture projects as its water soluble before drying. If I had one I would probably get some TB III in a small bottle for that project. I could tell that the joints where I applied the glue first were already pretty dry, pretty sticky, and the squeeze out was pretty minimal. Once clamped and before it begins to cure (5~10 min), use a straight edge across door face to confirm it is straight and flat. Titebond II @ 150F Strength 1750 psi Wood failure rate 6%, Titebond III Strength 4000 psi Wood failure rate 57% Titebond Extend Glue is a slower setting version of Titebond Original Glue, with 15 minutes of open time. A little bummed to lose all that strength (and just have it screwed together), since it needs to last a long time outdoors. Heres a fundamental question from Jason. just after a bit of help myself. Any comments on the best glue to use to reglue? Do NOT use Titebod III for paddles. Hiya guys great discussion! You might be able to reduce it to almost nothing though if you actually wash the surface prior to the glue skinning over with a clean wet cotton cloth. On launch day, after a couple hours in the hot sun, the strips popped right off. Even if you use all hardwoods, you still may confront density and expansion issues. Titebond II will easily come off your fingers by rubbing them together, whereas original titebond will coat you fingers and even if you try to rub it off. It is not waterproof (use the exterior version for this). I should have been more careful in my wording in my post. Thanks for getting back to me Marc, and I appreciate the links and helpful advice! The last paddles I made were not birdsmouth, though they where hollow. If they survive, its a pass on the type 1 test. Talk about a DARK glue line, the dark Titebond II is it. Anyone try to EXTEND OPEN TIME by placing parts applied with glue into a wet, warm rubber tub (Steaming hot wet rags at the bottom with stickers to keep parts off them..) I havent had any issues bonding epoxy to PVA but I dont have the means to know exactly how strong the joint actually is. If you use Titebond, which is a very good glue, you will never be able to take the fiddle apart if it needs work done in the future. According to many banjo luthiers, they prefer TB I for primarily two reasons (them being cheap isnt one of them). (1) squeeze all the air out of the tube before you put the cap on (I use a spring clamp to help do this) Original is best for instruments because it has no creep factor, which 2 and 3 do. I cant imagine there being a big difference that would effect cracking and splitting. I was going to say the same thing. Ive left TB3 bottles open for 48 hours with no ill effects. Youll probably notice liquid hide has an expiration date on the bottom of the bottle. Ive only used Titebond original in my very short wood working experience (6 months at most). Man I never would have thought to bring the glue into the house, Im reminded now why I read TWW. Or should I glue then dip immediately. Will fix it now. It doesnt stick to itself, which makes repairs a pain in the butt joint. Bought it because of the waterproof rating, but for outdoor use Titebond II would have been sufficient? I never once tipped a cow. This take a lot more elbow grease but it is well worth it and I saved tons of money in material and potential replacement costs! You can do this with polyurethane glues too, though Ive found most of these will foam out through the joint in spots anyway. Reviewed in the United Kingdom on May 1, 2022, Reviewed in the United Kingdom on September 21, 2019. One thing for the hobbyist to keep in mind is expiration dates. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate. Under typical environmental conditions Titebond II and Titebond III are equally resistant to water. My glue up (when more than two glue lines are involve) are artsy; pieces always shift a little when putting the clamp pressure and I always too late to fix it . Also check out some of the adhesives for sale at Jamestown Distributors: http://www.jamestowndistributo..;page=GRID. Too many factors for me to say for certain. Maybe a silly question butwill either Titebond II or III bond to a wood surface which has been stained which contained a sealer as well? We do not have any recommendations at this time, Repair more and waste less with a mess-free glue, Silicone Glue Brushes for Crafts and Woodworking, Previous page of related Sponsored Products, Is Discontinued By Manufacturer Anyway regarding hide glue and heat, a violin (generally hide or fish glue) left in a hot car can virtually come apart. Havent noticed any problems yet. Is this normal? All Rights Reserved. It might be less costly to buy a slightly larger bottle at a lower cost per ounce and use it all instead of throw out portions of multiple bottles. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. Please try again. My worry is that based on what Ive read, Titebond 3 looses strength as the temperature rises and could cause my joints to open. Should Titebond Original become thick and stringy, or Titebond II turns into an orange colored gel, these changes signify that the glue is no longer usable. Darn that comment was not for this reply lol. i bought the stuff because it was supposed to be the ultimate glue and it was on sale at the time so i went with it thinking that it couldnt hurt to go with the best. This works, but isnt particularly waterproof, though effective if the paint coatings are kept intact. Titebond III offers twice the open time of Titebond II and Original. If the wood in a joint isnt failing, then it seems the glue must be failing. I used to use it a lot, and it was a very good glue. I have heard that spackle will pop out of the holes in time. I bought a very small bottle about a year ago for a very small outdoor repair. I typically use it when repairing vintage furniture or if there wont be a lot of stress on the joint/join. Its completely ripped off and the hinges are in place. If you have any questions for adhesive realted articles feel free to shoot me an e-mail or I can give you my direct line. Ive also found if you thin PVAs with water (10% or less) it ll increase open time and reduce viscosity a bit, which might help in getting tighter joints also. If youre building indoor furniture correctly, you dont need to cover your bases. Just as the Whisperer said, a proper joint/construction with Titebond I is incredibly strong. A good finish will help slow down seasonal movement and that should put less stress on the joints. Great thread, me Ive got a question applying 5 mil copper sheet to wood, outdoor project, its a moongate so the object will you not be touched by anything other than the elements. Titebond Extend Wood Glue is a slower setting versions of Titebond Original Wood Glue and offers superior performance in a broad range of applications! But, how often do you construct something that will be heavily loaded at 150 degree ambient temperature? My goal is more about strength in the dry area I live in and not as much about the concerns of the mess of guerrilla glue if that is a choice. Anyway, that means ultimate failure ought to be expected around 1800 psi or less. $14.99 This is true of System Three as well, though System Threes standard resin/hardener combinations are slightly more refined then West System. I found it for pennies more than II, which I usually use, and got curious about the open time and color, which landed me here. According to the American Wood Council, safe allowable shear strength for the best species of domestic woods is no more than 220 psi for structural design purposes. and I found that if I put the glue on every surface, it dries up a bit before I can get the whole thing together. I have a LOT of gluing at once for a special project. It stays hard until actually melted. But I still build with movement in mind just because you never know. We make splined picture frames, and sometimes I cheat the minimum working temperature up here in upstate ny. Any pros or cons between the two for marquetry projects? Your order will come with a return form with convenient instructions, or you may send your returns directly to Returns Department, Rockler Woodworking and Hardware, 4365 Willow Drive, Medina, MN 55340.
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