Some Thoughts on Where Not Bad People Might End Up, Of Artificial Intelligence and Human Folly, More on How I Understand and Interpret Revelation, Some Thoughts on Where Not Bad People Might End Up - Catholic Stand, Artificial Intelligence: What is it and Where is it Going? Why all the handwringing about civility? Yeah, right. Or admit that you have fallen into grave sin out of pride in the brightness of your own thoughts. Learn how your comment data is processed. Tons of defamatory theories swirling about my motives and about the TnT breakup itself (which Marshall is conspicuously failing to correct). Tim Gordon was a high school theology teacher at a Catholic school in California. Advocating for a restoration of Christian patriarchy has been a central theme for the brothers. Lets take this offline, bro. But according to Tim, neither TAN nor Steph erred by this. Verses are not contextualized in the scope of scripture as a whole, or even within the biblical book itself., Ask Your Husband is an earnest attempt to respond to some real problems in our culture, ones that plague many marriages, Favale wrote. ), the blog of Ronald L. Conte Jr., Roman Catholic theologian and Bible translator, Conservative Papal Accusers are Fortunate Pope Francis isLiberal, Taylor Marshall was a Catholic for 13 years. I read somewhere that it has something to do with the Society of St. Pius X, a group in an "irregular situation" regarding canonical status due to the founder's excommunication, but I'm not sure how exactly involved they are in the Marshall vs Gordon thing. God allowed this. Wow. The point of departure was NOT receiving Communionwhich is licit all things consideredbut the apology for not just inaccurate statements about SSPX (which is great!) Theyre conceptually different, THIS is the real issue. He never said. Marshall then objects to the phrase in the Open Letter heretical Pope. Then he left theChurch, the dogma that each Pope has the gift of immunity from error (the gift of truth) and the gift of a never-failing faith, What Saint Bellarmine really said about Popes and Heresy, Pope Francis Accused of 7 Counts of Heresy by 19 Scholars, first add a Chrome RSS reader or extension. The relatio of Vatican I makes it clear that the Fathers of the Council intended to assert as dogma the teaching of Doctor of the Church Saint Robert Bellarmine that the Pope cannot in any way be heretical, or publicly teach heresy. Marshall: I just dont see where anyone on earth can judge the Supreme Pontiff.. (1:54 PM), The issue is that the texts are to be presumed faithful unless specifically heretical, even if their drafters used weaponized ambiguity[.] (12:25 PM), JP2 indeed spread a false ecumenism but wasnt trying to kill the TLM entirely. The current dust-up has far more potentially serious . They stopped being men and became guys, and now, in tragic numbers, feckless soy boys. The West is now ready for the RETROGRADE programme of recovery. Anyways, I kind of enjoyed these podcasts when I had the free time and was still learning about Catholicism, but as classes have ramped up, I admit to having stopped listening to a lot of them since I have very little free time now (I now listen to maybe a couple from Dr. Marshall here and there). (4:22 PM), PS: this isnt a big deal. Tim Gordon has nearly 40,000 YouTube subscribers, and his weekly livestreams regularly draw tens of thousands of viewers. Show me where I called you a single name. Major pattern. Then, given our sinfulness and brokenness, God positively wills that there be other religions, such as the Christian denominations, present-day Judaism, and moderate peaceful Islam, so as to bring more souls to Him. You are wrong on Justification. The story David and his brother tell is - if nothing else - a fascinating glimpse into a growing corner of American Catholicism, and into a burgeoning call to restore Christian patriarchy, which has gained traction in conservative Catholic circles. TAN published Tims The Case for Patriarchy in 2021 largely developed from the chapters he wrote for the book he expected to co-author with his brother, Tim said. Oh, really? But despite the apparent similarities in topic and content, David told The Pillar he thought much of Ask You Husband was claptrap.. Brothers squabbling a bit is the inevitable cost of abandonment by our spiritual fathers; all of us have various talents, but none of us have authority to pronounce on theological questions. Something happened to men in the last 50 years. We have to be able to have discussion intellectually, w/o the fomenting of the emotions. Catholics are drama queens[.] Its all my idea the way I framed it and created it into an argument, into a cogent thoughtfor someone to waltz in and take that stuff that they don't know about, and to beat me to the punch publishing my own book, filled with my own research, its theft of years of my life.. Therefore, he has chosen to depart from the Catholic Church. Can we talk about that? The signatories to the Open Letter have committed heresy, and so has Taylor Marshall, by rejecting the teaching of the Council that no Pope can teach or commit heresy. You are wrong on divorce and remarriage, and absolution and Communion for people living in objective sin. . Ill speak to ANY of these guys Ive ever crossed swords with. The CPDV my conservative Catholic translation of the Bible, from the Latin Vulgate into English, is available at Amazon.com in Kindle format and online here. Im saying that formal adherence to schismatic acts is a grave peril of attending the SSPX. 2 or 3 of them. And thats just what it is, guessing. And when Marshall says more hereticalthan anything in Amoris Laetitia, he implies a further accusation, that Amoris Laetitia contains heresy. Thats the problem. to media and to feminist opponents of Ask Your Husband.. Theres an unimagined gap between FSSP and SSPX[.] I said nothing about you or your family on here and never would! Do you think that your enthusiasm for the new Pope erases your sins of heresy and schism? And most of these people think youre scum just for going to the Novus Ordo. Care to say more than a drive-by insult, Fr Khouri? (11:39 PM), God bless FSSP! Dont worry brother, No worries at all. . (4-14-20, 5:01 PM), Im fine. He is after fame and fortune and spotlight and this is really low, he said. The ordinary form Mass is still valid, yet it is trashed all the time and regarded as objectively inferior. And Catholics who attend it are despised and looked down upon, as second-class Catholics. Podcaster and YouTuber. My position is that, before the fact of our sinfulness, God wills that everyone know the fullness of truth, and so He wills everyone to be Catholic. (4-12-20: Easter Sunday, 6:25 AM), Shots fired by Retrograde Gordon Bros against Marshall. Distinctions matter, Dave and I disagree about *how close* VC2 comes to embracing ecumenism/modernism. Your email address will not be published. This shouldnt be engaged in public. Patrick is the Canadian-born former host of Catholic Answers Live, and he has raving fans around the world. Professional gurus need money to survive but when their popularity wanes then the cycle begins again as the apologists have to reinvent themselves or go back to regular work. TAN added the footnote, but did not remove before publication reference to a particular source Stephanie had asked be omitted. Home The Slow Death of ManhoodDr. (11:32 PM). Wherever it leads. And he states this again, more specifically later in the video. Honesty check time[.] There's a race to put out product and sell merchandise to cult-like fans, to Jonestown-esque fans, who will defend you no matter what you do. In October 2019, Marshall received media attention for publicizing an incident at the Catholic Church's Amazon Synod in which Alexander Tschugguel and an accomplice filmed themselves removing indigenous fertility statues, reportedly of Pachamama, from the Church of Santa Maria in Traspontina in Rome and throwing them into the Tiber river. (4-14-20, 4:58 PM), It is fixable. And yet you complain that the divorced and remarried may receive Communion despite their objectively grave sins. Who determines where that is? Calling FSSP bootlicking (as many who were supporting your tweet were doing) IS fragging. Gordon Dalbey. I cant do UNITY alone. . Meaning inheres in text, not intention. Show me where I called you a single name. It goes Scripture, patristics, scholastics, magisterium, modern magisterium. I called him yesterday. Catholics become schismatics when they reject the Pope as Teacher and Shepherd, when they reject his authority over doctrine and discipline. (10:22 PM), Taylor, can you tell me in a sentence why SSPX is necessary when FSSP exists? (If you use Google Chrome, first add a Chrome RSS reader or extension. I just dont want this dragging out in public. The answer always insinuates formal adherence to schism. Radical Catholic Reactionaries, Defense of Vatican II vs. Oliveira Leonardo's Attacks, Tertullian's Eucharistic Theology: Lucas Banzoli vs. J.N.D. Lets take this offline and chat by phone later, yes? Hes claiming ownership to the eight or nine broadly speaking antifeminist Scriptural pulls that everyone would know.. It's really disappointing to see two Allies so publicly argue. Ill do it anytime. Thats my ecclesiastical position. But Trads have flatly misunderstood religious freedom in Dignitatis: read Leo XIIIs IMMORTALE DEI 36, which Trads reject Dave and I agree 100%about Dignitatis[.] Finally, God wills to permit unbelief and highly-flawed religions, under His permissive will, because He respects our free will. They stopped being men and became guys, and now, in tragic numbers, feckless soy boys. Its destructive and wrong. David and his brother Tim Gordon are public personalities and influential figures among a certain set of young, self-styled conservative, very online Catholics Tim is a YouTube personality once associated with the polemicist author Taylor Marshall, and David is a writer and editor at the website Church Militant. Marshall: theyre accusing him of the canonical delict of heresy. David Gordon said it would have been futile to contact his brother about the dispute. Irrelevant. (1:53 PM), The world of text, hermeneutic, jurisprudence. How this crisis manifests itself in the disappointing behavior of so many priests, bishops, and cardinals. Sorry, Taylor! David, author Stephanie Gordons brother-in-law, told The Pillar that crucial sections of Ask Your Husband were plagiarized from his own unpublished critique of feminism. any waypublic or privateto reconcile with TM is good. Please disown that[.] Without them we would be without the Sacraments. So it is not Pope Francis teaching that God positively wills many religions. I wondered why I hadnt seen Timothys face on the ubiquitous Taylor Marshall videos as of late . It will not. There are certainly a few factors, as with all etiologies, but I speculate that his evolution regarding SSPX was probably one of them. And it aint gonna be clan chieftains Chris Ferrara or Steve Skojec or John-Henry Westen or Michael Voris or Patrick Coffin (who all preside over their own echo-chambers) either. Most of the book is references to The Simpsons, and Rocky and Bullwinkle, and The Office. We bring that up over and over on TNT. I resist him to his face.. Because all of the temptations that you would expect to be at play within, like, the Catholic Twittersphere, YouTube, the one-man apostolate that is so popular now, all of those temptations towards monetization, towards fame, towards glory in the eyes of your 7,000 fans or whatever it is, they're all there., There's a race to the bottom. He has very thoroughly rejected the magisterial authority of the Pope, to such an extent that whenever the Pope teaches anything contrary to Marshalls own thinking, he immediately assumes the Pope is wrong (see below), and he does not accept Pope Francis as Teacher and Shepherd. It seems possible to do with some but not most SSPX attendees, namely the ones w/o the schismatic attitude How do you unite the clans with those who call us FSSP bootlickers, a common attitude among SSPX ever since FSSP broke off. erred by receiving the Eucharist from the SSPX on Easter; regular parishes are widely shuttered and there was no other possibility of receiving the Holy Eucharist. Because there are many religions, and why are there many religions? Also for the record, Ive never been certain why Taylor opted for non-renewal during the peak of TNT popularity. One can only approximate how much one wouldnt have known if they hadnt seen someone elses citationsIn terms of the approximate remediability of pretending to know something you wouldnt have known if you hadnt read someones work but were going to research the same topic, how much of their sources would you have found?, Well when were talking about scripture and major encyclicals that pretty much everyone that knows anything about this knows, and you talk to the person for a long time, its really hard to come to a conclusion other than, yes, Steph would have known where to look in the scripture, because I knew. Yet Gordons approach is legalistic and ideological; she snips and twists scripture and tradition to align with her preconceived views, and is ultimately unable to escape the same trap that often ensnares feminists: a tendency to see man-woman relations primarily through the lens of power., Favale observed that if Stephanie Gordon desires a truly Catholic understanding of femininity, she might need to ask someone other than her husband.. I figured Id go privately to the publisher. People accused me of not reaching out, which I have been for months[. He injects these fascinating interviews with his own distinctive blend of depth and levity. When it's just laymen running these one-man apostolates, which are very much self-promoting and self-glorifying, there's a danger of people falling into serious grave mortal sin in order to get more money. (8:04 PM), no pattern except that I wish them both welltheyre both Catholics with whom I mostly agree Trent [Horn]: a smart dude I barely know & only spoke with thrice; Taylor: a smart dude I know WELLspoke to him daily for over a year, until he abruptly/mostly stopped replying to texts/calls[.] After talking with David, The Pillar reached out to Tim and Stephanie Gordon through their attorney. (11:30 PM), Dave and I guessabout the status of SSPX differently. Marshall: I honestly think that the safest position is this is the Pope we have right now. But now and then, a high-profile reactionary actually becomes more diabolically self-consistent (though further from the truth) and ventures over the line. David said directly that he doubted his sister-in-law could have read and analyzed sociological scholarship cited in the book, adding that some sections were inconsistent with its overall tone and structure. Get over it. Steve Skojec opined on 4-14-20 (5:10 PM): Our coalition is dwindling, . ], Did you see how many folks idiotically assumed that I havent been reaching out as a brother in Jan/Feb/March? But while both Gordon brothers have made their living in far-right circles of the Catholic internet, David said his plagiarism charge is about more than his own corner of Catholicism, and about far more than a dispute between brothers. That research that she just took represents years of my life. Tons of defamatory theories swirling about my motives and about the TnT breakup itself (which Marshall is conspicuously failing to correct). My brand CANT be damaged by defending the ONE HOLY CHURCH against outsiders who claim my Sunday obligation isnt fulfilled if I attend novus. Its destructive and wrong. So Marshall believes that Pope Francis has espoused particular heretical ideas. Its quite strange, no? In the course of the discussion, Marshall commits public heresy and schism. Mind your business Steve [Skojec]. Most are errors that Pope Francis does not teach. (8:33 PM), He made it sound like he called back, Steve. (9:50 PM), Clarify where correct; apologize where incorrect. Its intellectual. Civil discussion is whats needed and you wont even respond to me, privately or publicly. It is not that God wishes many persons to be in religions which lack the fullness of truth. It is not submission to acknowledge that Pope Francis is the Pope. He later revealed exactly why he was snubbed: For the annals of history: I didnt leave. I was non-renewed against my wishes. I would never frag ya[.] Well, where did you get this idea from? he said. (4-14-20, 4:34 PM), I ask everyone to pray for all parties involved. For their good and mine and all of us, Im officially ending this nasty Twitter feud. Shall we list the many who have done this? He didnt. Look where it got them. Lets take this offline and chat by phone later, yes? For those who don't know, they are both in the traditionalist Catholic blogosphere (in an extremely brief summary, traditionalist Catholics are very conservative and prefer Catholic rituals done as they were before the Second Vatican Council). Those who reject the Magisterium, grasp at straws seeking its replacement. [2:41 PM), Disagreeing respectfully is the OPPOSITE of fragging. I've had to make confessions like that.. ], Update: called Taylor a little bit ago to wish Happy Easter Monday and bury the petty squabbles. Dwight Longenecker tweeted similarly: When Catholics set themselves up to judge and condemn popes and bishops its not long before they are judging and condemning one another. Delict of heresy and schism he states this again, more specifically later in the disappointing of. The emotions feckless soy boys my motives and about the TnT breakup (. Dave and I disagree about * how close * VC2 comes to embracing ecumenism/modernism reader! 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